Talk:Jazz

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Former featured articleJazz is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 21, 2004.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 19, 2004Refreshing brilliant proseKept
February 12, 2006Featured article reviewDemoted
March 17, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former featured article

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2020[edit]

Please add image of Betty Carter under roles of women:

CarterBetty19861025

Please add image of Ella Fitzgerald under roles of women:

Ella Fitzgerald (Gottlieb 02871)

Please intersperse images of other female jazz artists into the page.

Thanks! Julianne.sheehy09 (talk) 02:30, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

I agree - but where? Looking at where these might be included - in sections where they should be mentioned in the text - it seems to me that there are other problems in the article. For instance, the section on "Post-war jazz" says: "Vocalists of the famous big bands moved on to being marketed and performing as solo pop singers; these included Frank Sinatra, Peggy Lee, Dick Haymes, and Doris Day." No mention at all of Fitzgerald, which seems bizarre, or of Carter. And, none of those four mentioned are African-American - which seems more than bizarre. If the source used appears to be unbalanced - which, to me, it does - the article should use better sources. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:40, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
 Not done: Adding one or both of the images to the section would make it look cluttered. KylieInTheSkylie (talk) 02:01, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
The point might have been that Fitzgerald and Carter weren't marketed as pop singers, while Sinatra and Day were. No one questions the jazz bona fides of the first two, but they do of the second two. Doris Day really wasn't much of a jazz singer. Usually what happens is people will add something without reading what comes before and after the text they are adding. This leads to discontinuity and material that appears out of context. If we are going to be factual, there were female jazz musicians long before Carter and Fitzgerald. But the numbers game isn't one I'm going to play.
Vmavanti (talk) 14:16, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
I accept your first point about "jazz" vs. "pop". However, the under-representation of women among the images included in the article is quite remarkable. There are over 20 images of male musicians, and just one of a female singer. MOS:PERTINENCE: "Strive for variety. For example, in an article with numerous images of persons... seek to depict a variety of ages, genders, and ethnicities." Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:52, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
That's fine. You make a valid point. But the numbers game is always arbitrary. I pay more attention to facts and text.
Vmavanti (talk) 22:51, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Long stretches of the article are bizarrely under-illustrated. In fact the 2nd human image is a (black) woman - Ethel Waters, is it. There are I think only 4 images of white males, and none at all of white females, which is a little odd. Only 1 non-American too. There's plenty of room for more images. Johnbod (talk) 16:06, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
"bizarrely under-illustrated" is arbitary. I don't what know objective criterion could exist to determine "this article is properly illustrated" or "this article isn't." It's subjective opinion and it's not that important.
Vmavanti (talk) 22:51, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
Whether it's "important" is a matter of subjective opinion. But we need to make a better attempt to comply with MOS. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:04, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
I mean the text. The text is more important than the pictures.
Vmavanti (talk) 04:30, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
I agree. But that does not mean that achieving a balance of images is unimportant. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:26, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Guitar[edit]

Why isn't the guitar a typical instrument? --101.176.42.127 (talk) 04:59, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

It wasn't until electrification came along because you couldn't hear it over the rest of the band.
Vmavanti (talk) 14:10, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Progressive music[edit]

Could someone put the Progressive music template here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C7:C201:C640:E94D:4B73:B1C5:9911 (talk) 00:40, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Missing key artists etc[edit]

Several artists are mentioned for each genre subheading and in other parts. However there are three which are conspicuous by their absence : Oscar Peterson, Stephan Grappelli, and the most successful jazz impresario Norman Granz. Experts, please consider including appropriate reference to these your next edit Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.125.96 (talk) 08:08, 25 November 2020 (UTC)